Re: st: RE: New member orientation

[Nick Winter <nwinter@virginia.edu>]

I take issue with the premise that there is a Big Problem needing to be 
solved.

The way I see it is that on a list with hundreds of weekly emails, there 
is an occasional post, from someone who seems new to the list, that 
seems misguided in some way.  List members--usually Nick Cox--gently 
point out the issue, remind the poster of the FAQ, and life goes on. 
Now maybe this is a big burden for Nick, and maybe things would get much 
worse without his work reminding people.

In some ideal world everyone would read and understand every FAQ 
completely before posting.  In that ideal world I wouldn't have a 
cabinet full of unused dental floss, one from each visit to the dentist 
over the last decade . . .

--Nick Winter

Nick Cox wrote:

> I am no expert but from first principles it would seem 
> that the information that somebody has visited the FAQ is 
> (1) stored in the user's own machine, at least temporarily, 
> and 
> (2) (possibly) stored somehow on the StataCorp website
> as that is where the FAQ is hosted. 
> Setting aside all questions of feasibility, those who 
> run Statalist have _absolutely_ no right (or desire) to hack into 
> any user's machine, so that rules out (1) in a flash.  
> (2) is not quite so easy but I incline to the view that 
> it is wrong as a matter of principle to use this information. 
> The whole thing is too Orwellian. In any case I seriously doubt 
> that StataCorp would want to make it available to outsiders even 
> if that were possible, whether directly or indirectly. 
> More simply, just visiting the FAQ is no guarantee of close 
> attention, so while this solution might reduce some problems, the 
> problem is not one of website accesses, but of what is read, learnt
> and inwardly digested. 
> Nick 
> n.j.cox@durham.ac.uk 
> SamL
>  
> > Would it be prohibitively difficult technologically to prevent someone
> > from posting until they had actually visited the FAQ page?  I 
> > know that
> > sounds draconian, but it is for their own good.  (WOW, this just keeps
> > sounding worser and worser).  Bad though it may sound, is it 
> > possible?  If
> > so, then is it desirable?
> >
> > Sam
> >
> > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Nick Cox wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I have changed the title of this thread partly because
> > > I am focusing on one specific point.
> > >
> > > Sebastian Kruk suggested
> > >
> > > > Maybe a new subscriber should receive the FAQ as first message.
> > > In any case Sebastian's original title
> > >
> > > RE: Re: statalist-digest V4 #2725
> > >
> > > is meaningless to those who do not receive the digest
> > > and hopelessly vague to those who do. If you are
> > > replying to a digest, please use the heading of
> > > the specific posting you are replying to as the
> > > basis for your subject.
> > >
> > > Sebastian's suggestion is not one that I propose
> > > to instigate.
> > >
> > > New members already receive this admonition like
> > > this:
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > Welcome to the statalist-digest mailing list!
> > >
> > > Please save this message for future reference.  Thank you.
> > >
> > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
> > > you can send mail to <Majordomo@hsphsun2.harvard.edu> with 
> > the following
> > > command in the body of your email message:
> > >
> > >     unsubscribe statalist-digest n.j.cox@durham.ac.uk
> > >
> > > If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list,
> > > (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the
> > > list itself) send email to 
> > <owner-statalist-digest@hsphsun2.harvard.edu> .
> > > This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need
> > > to contact a human.
> > >
> > >  Here's the general information for the list you've subscribed to,
> > >  in case you don't already have it:
> > >
> > > Welcome to Statalist. We hope that you will find Statalist postings
> > > interesting and useful, and that you may feel able to contribute.
> > > Statalist has been going since 1994, and over that time we have
> > > developed an FAQ which is at
> > >
> > > http://www.stata.com/support/faqs/res/statalist.html
> > >
> > > It is packed with information and, indeed, the distilled wisdom of
> > > Statalist veterans.
> > >
> > > Please read that FAQ at your convenience, but certainly 
> > before you post
> > > anything to the list. We hope you will find that acting on 
> > the advice
> > > given in the FAQ will increase the chance of someone answering your
> > > questions fruitfully and keep the list pleasant for all.
> > > ---------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Over the years, we have experimented with various alternatives
> > > to this message. One was sending a shortened version of the FAQ
> > > with key points, but it is impossible to tell what are the key
> > > points for any new member, as points obvious or relevant to some
> > > are evidently not obvious or relevant to others.
> > >
> > > Sending the full FAQ would not be a good idea, however,
> > > for several reasons:
> > >
> > > 1. The FAQ is revised from time to time. Thus, we would need
> > > to revise the material in the welcome message everytime
> > > we tweaked the FAQ. The burden here would fall not so much
> > > on Marcello Pagano or myself but on Harvard School of Public
> > > Health personnel who do the nitty-gritty entirely as a matter
> > > of good will.
> > >
> > > 2. The FAQ is manifestly an HTML document with various links
> > > and other clickable detail. It is, we suspect, much more
> > > natural and convenient for members to look at it in their
> > > favourite browser.
> > >
> > > 3. Sending members HTML documents by email would run contrary
> > > to the Statalist philosophy, itself explained at length
> > > in the FAQ, that only plain text messages are guaranteed to be
> > > intelligible and acceptable to all members of the list.
> > >
> > > 4. Sending members an ASCII version would raise issues
> > > already explained under #1 and #2.
> > >
> > > 5. The alternative of asking new members to click on an URL or
> > > to copy and paste that into a browser is, we feel, a minimal and
> > > reasonable request.
> *
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--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Nicholas Winter                                 434.924.6994 t
Assistant Professor                             434.924.3359 f
Department of Politics                  nwinter@virginia.edu e
University of Virginia          faculty.virginia.edu/nwinter w
PO Box 400787, 100 Cabell Hall
Charlottesville, VA 22904

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